The Uselessness of the TIMI Risk Score
Supposedly one of the measures which is evaluated during the process of "Chest Pain Center Accreditation" is the use of the TIMI Risk Score in the Emergency Department:
In theory this sounds like a neat way to streamline and validate our medical decision-making, but in practice this system is totally worthless to us in the Emergency Department. Consider these examples:
- Age over 65 years
- More than 3 risk factors for CAD
- Known CAD (stenosis ≥ 50%)
- ASA Use in Past 7 days
- Severe angina (≥ 2 episodes within 24 hrs)
- ST changes ≥ 0.5mm
- Positive Cardiac Marker
In theory this sounds like a neat way to streamline and validate our medical decision-making, but in practice this system is totally worthless to us in the Emergency Department. Consider these examples:
1) The 64 year old with known coronary artery disease status post stenting of his proximal LAD, who has neglected to take his aspirin or plavix for the past week, who presents with a single severe episode of unstable angina that woke him from sleep 2 hours ago, who has significant ST depression, but his first set of cardiac enzymes is negative. He has only a TIMI risk score of 2, so he supposedly has only an 8% risk of death. I guess we should send him home.In practice, we aren't sending anyone home with ischemic ECG changes or elevated cardiac enzymes, so I find that this scoring system is completely useless to my practice. Protocol-driven medical decision-making is always going to be inferior to expert clinical judgment. This is also one of the reasons you should be suspicious of the current fad of the various "accreditation" merit badges hospitals proudly display. They are equally worthless.
2) The 44 year old hypertensive Marlboro man with chest pain and a positive troponin but no ECG changes gets only a TIMI score of 1, so his risk of death is even lower, only 5%. He can follow up next week, I suppose. Be sure to tell him to come back if he gets worse.
Labels: chest pain, ER



18 Comments:
What do you think of software interpretation of ECGs? Can a computer recognize an MI better than the EMT/paramedic in the field? Specifically, have you run across the ACI/TIPI predictive instrument available in the LifePack 12-lead monitors?
They seem to be more sensitive than specific, meaning they seem to have more false positives than false negatives, which is better than the alternative. The computerized interpretation of ACUTE MI!!! is useful for getting your attention and making you look closely (and quickly!) at the ECG, but it's not rare for them to be wrong.
I have seen the ACI/TIPI interpretations on a couple of transferred patients, but not often enough to have a feel for them.
but...but...we can put it on a billboard!
I agree. I think it is useless.
my thoughts exactly !!! Stacy...
The hospital I worked in gets a 100% rating for cardiac, but I don't know if you are talking about the same thing. They are proud of it though.
They do send the big cases to a larger hospital in another county once stabilized.
You're just practicing defensive medicine and you know it.
Obviously those patients don't need to be admitted - unless they rule in for an infarction later.
Then you're an idiot for sending them home.
Agree with you totally on the scores, you're a physician not a cook.
Off topic, but Scalpel, you're not one afraid of controversy. Insults fly, and you thrive. What's up with the disappearing comment threads?
That post was never intended to provide a forum for Bush-bashers to vent their hate and voice their skewed world-views, it was simply to share a link for those who wanted to thank him for his service to our country.
I'm no longer interested in engaging in debates about Bush's presidency. His work is done, and there is no point in continuing to hammer or to defend him. I choose to leave him in peace.
Now that the tables have turned, over the next few years we'll see how much the liberals enjoy defending someone they admire against vicious hateful attacks. I predict this will be the most corrupt scandalous inept administration in US presidential history, and I'm eager to discuss that.
OOHH Scalpel, I hope not !! I don't or I can't understand how or why all these politicians ,Government, people{s) can be so corrupt, and be able to sleep at night! while they are sleeping, I am up (lying there staring at the cieling) stressing and hoping about getting another job to buy food,etc.. I was laid off in NOV,after 5 years there, and I have applying for more jobs than I ever had to in my entire life !! I say we all go up there ( to D.C.) and stand at the front door of the white house and when he comes out, Grab him, and you Scalpel, give him a sleeping shot of something take him back over to my place and tell him he ain't goin back home untill everyone in this country (excluding the Bad) has a house( paid for) food in the fridge, good jobs, and bandaides in the medicine cabinet!!!!!!!! I know, I know, "Yeea Right". Seriously though, I hope we can turn this mess around or I just might lose more than my job !!! Stacy (:
Just wanted to post this to shed some light on what is going to be the next 4 years.
Scalpel you are dead on about the scandals. Tell me why this is not in the main stream media?
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/265809
Or why Obama did not attend the Medal Of Honor Ball? The Medal Of Honor Ball has NEVER been missed by a president since its inception.
http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/8627
Fair 'nuff, but posting something like that is kind of asking for debate.
how is that the use of the protocols seems to be in vogue when as a science medicine is moving towards more made-to-measure therapies...I recently saw Craig Venter speak about his work with genomics in a presentation that was geared to those without a significant background in science. We are on the brink of personalized medical therapies according to the scientists, though I believe it will be delayed until BigPharma and insurance can find a way to rid themselves of the current paradigm for the marketing and sale of medicine.
Or maybe its just the group-think sycophantic Obamabots trying to sing Kum Ba Yah and make us all hold hands while convincing us to the drink the "we are all the same" Kool-Aid that will continue to keep personalized medicine on the shelf. After all, if it isn't good for all, it isn't good for one.
We make the keep/send decision based on clinical factors, but then use the TIMI score to help triage between EM OBS and IM admission.
Also, being able to tell your consultant "I give him a TIMI score of 3" helps to cut down your phone time.
wow..
TIMI is intended to be one of multiple considerations. No one has told providers to live or die by it. If a patient has changes in their ECG or a positive enzyme, the protocol always says admit them. When you have a negative ECG and a negative troponin THEN you are supposed to step back and consider the entire clinical picture- including H&P AND TIMI risk. These are the standards, even for the accrediting body. You're just angry because you think no one could possibly do your job better than you.
The protocol does NOT recommend just admitting patients with ST changes or positive cardiac markers, although that is what is typically done in the real world.
In the TIMI Risk score world, those factors are worth one point each in their decision algorithm.
Lame.
I am a lowly medical student and not even from the same country as you, so i wouldn't presume to tell you how to deal with an NSTEMI, but it is my understanding the TIMI risk assessment tool is specifically designed to help physicians decide whether to use thrombolytics (Heparin/ Streptokinase etc.) or to stick with a more conservative treatment of antiplatelets, vasodilators, B-blockers in a patient who presents with an NSTEMI
p.s. sorry for the necro
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