Pizza Hut and Guns
I love Pizza Hut pizzas.
My favorite pie is their thin and crispy Pepperoni Lover's, but when I'm feeling a bit rebellious, I sometimes take a walk on the wild side and order a supreme. I enjoy their pan pizza too, and I've even been known to scarf down a few of their wings. I have wistful memories of the discontinued P'Zone.
Not a week goes by that I don't have a large order delivered for the family, and twice a week is not unheard of. When I buy pizzas for the ER, it's a safe bet that I'm calling the Hut as well. I'm a loyal fan, forsaking all other pizza delivery restaurants for over 20 years.
But I can assure you that if Pizza Hut eventually fires James William Spiers III for defending himself against an armed robber, I will join Iowa State Senator Brad Zaun, and I will never order another meal from that franchise ever again.
I urge you to do the same.
UPDATE: similar case here.
Labels: dodged bullet, guns, pizza, politics, self defense
posted by scalpel at 12:25 AM
24 Comments:
It is utterly horrible that people are expected/required to give up their right to self defense in exchange for employment. I am sympathetic to arguments about property owners' rights to determine who/what where, but think that self defense in an unalienable right.
This prohibition has nothing to do with employee on employee violence concerns and everything to do with deeply pocketed corporate defendants afraid of jury verdicts. Pizza Hut driver kills an attempted robber? Worth hundreds of thousands to the grieving family, maybe more. The delivery guy gets killed, Pizza Hut will send a card. It's grotesque mathematics, concern for cost without concern for value.
I recall reading about a Domino's driver involved in a shootout, who won, and was promptly fired. At least he was alive.
So's this guy, and good for him. I predict he'll be let go quietly. At least he has his life.
GruntDoc
Fair enough. If he drove a company car, worked in the restaurant, or otherwise violated company policy by bringing a weapon onto COMPANY property then it would be a different situation. However, I understand the company's predicament as well- do you really want to know that your pizza guy is packing heat? If they don't fire him, they're essentially giving their pizza delivery personnel permission to carry weapons. What happens when an 18 year old kid making $7 an hour gets into an argument with a customer over a tip or delivery time? That's a bad situation.
It's not like he was flying a plane for United Airlines.
"do you really want to know that your pizza guy is packing heat?"
I assume that everyone I come across is packing heat. I treat everyone with respect, and I watch them carefully.
"18 year old kids" can't carry handguns in most states. The usual age is 21.
And crimes committed by licensed handgun permit-holders are exceedingly rare. An extensive FBI background check, with fingerprinting, is required prior to issuance of a handgun license.
It's not the licensed handgun carriers you need to worry about.
http://www.jamesspiershero.com/
and I fully agree with Scalpel's last comment.
I fully agree. I'll give up thin and crispy supreme, my all time favorite, for the principal that this hero is entitled to defend his life and still have a job. On the other hand, beginning today I am only going to blog and comment about breasts.
Though this was a thoroughly disturbing story, the most disturbing part was this statement:
"I love Pizza Hut pizzas."
Ew.
Even the pizzas must be bigger in Texas. They suck here.
"do you really want to know that your pizza guy is packing heat? If they don't fire him, they're essentially giving their pizza delivery personnel permission to carry weapons. What happens when an 18 year old kid making $7 an hour gets into an argument with a customer over a tip or delivery time? That's a bad situation."
This is the same argument that has been made, time and again, against law-abiding citizens carrying sidearms for defense. It has been replayed over and over in every state that has eventually adopted CCW (there will be blood on the streets, disputes will be settled with gunfire, etc.) It has NEVER panned out that way. No state that has adopted CCW (48/50 at this time) has seen an increase in gun crime, particularly from people licensed to carry. The type of person who goes to the trouble to carry legally is unlikely to be inclined to criminal behavior.
I frankly don't care if my pizza delivery man is armed. Delivery driver is a dangerous job, due to the threat of assault in addition to traffic accidents.
The armored car drivers carry weapons to thwart robbers (and they are a lot less likely to be in the crappy part of town at night.) What's the difference here?
I would prefer that my pizza driver has a concealed handgun license--It means a background check shows he's not a felon or a violent criminal, and (in Ohio at least) he has never been busted for drugs. It means he is statistically 5 to 8 times less likely to commit a violent crime.
Pizza delivery is a high-risk occupation, and if anyone should be allowed to carry they should. If I ran a nearby pizza place, I would very publicly offer Mr. Spiers a job. Whether he accepted or not, it would benefit my drivers.
(Former delivery guy, current armed license holder)
I'm a pizza snob, so Pizza Hut isn't on my radar. However, if Pizza Hut KEEPS James in their employ, I'll promise to gag down one of their pizzas at least once a month. Could be a whole new marketing campaign for them..."Pizza Hut: Keepin' you full AND safe.
When I was in college in a very tiny town where there was really ONLY a pizza hut to eat at, I used to waitress. After eating it every single day for about 3 meals straight for 2 years of college and bringing it home each night for my college friends who had no money, I don't really like it anymore.
But if I did still eat it, I would boycott it too. If the people they deliver to are anything like the slimy scary people I served, they really need some sort of protection/self defense. Plus, the people who have a license to have a gun are not the people to worry about. I highly doubt someone who was going to use a gun for anything illegal would get a license!
What I meant to write before was "Plus, I AGREE WITH YOU the people who have a license to have a gun are not the people to worry about." I left out that I agree part and I feel like I was in college again trying to pass off someone elses words as my own! Not that I ever did that of course.
And yes, I noticed the mistake as I typed it and then thought about it for three hours before coming back and changing it because it bugged me. Because apparently that is what I do when I swim...stew about things I might have mistyped.
And one more thing...I usually lurk here and don't comment. After today, let me know if you would rather I just do that from now on since I appear to be a crazy lady now.
I don't want Pizza Hut bringing guns to my house. I've been off pizza 20 pounds ago (a lot of good that did me), but if they let their delivery guys pack heat as a matter of policy there'd be no Pizza Hut pizza in my house regardless of weight.
'cmon, what is somebody going to do? Mug him for $15 in change and a pepperoni? The safest thing to do is to just give it to him. Some kid or clown who can't do better than a pizza delivery job is going to be more likely to have an accidental discharge than successfully defend himself with his gun. Keep him away from me.
Damn! Now I have to order Papa John's Pizza. Pizza Hut pizza was much better, but I will never buy it again.
Thanks, Pizza Hut
The NEJM gets into the act, here from an EM doctor, and here from a lawyer. No mention of Pizza Hut, just gun control as a matter of public health.
'cmon, what is somebody going to do? Mug him for $15 in change and a pepperoni? The safest thing to do is to just give it to him.
Incorrect. According to the USDOJ, an individual is 2.5 (female) or 1.4 (male) times more likely to be injured offering no resistance to an attack than if resisting using a firearm.
There can be a very valid debate about what a person should do if mugged/robbed, but offering no resistance does not guarantee safety. No one can read an attacker's mind.
Some kid or clown who can't do better than a pizza delivery job is going to be more likely to have an accidental discharge than successfully defend himself with his gun.
This is an extremely elitist attitude. As has been pointed out above, "kids" are not permitted to carry concealed weapons. The minimum age to purchase a pistol is 21, and a permit to carry requires (at least) a clean FBI background check (and some level of training, in many jurisdictions.) We permit 17 year olds to enlist in the military and operate much more dangerous weapons in actual combat on a regular basis.
Because someone happens to be working as a pizza delivery man, he is automatically not qualified to use a firearm? Why is that? I have never heard of a pizza delivery man shooting the wrong person or having a negligent discharge (I have heard numerous accounts of police officers doing so, however.)
Concealed carry is perfectly legal in the vast majority of states. It has proven itself safe as a policy. There has been no rash of carry permit holder mass shootings, as opponents predicted.
Legal permit holders are not a threat to my safety. They are not a threat to your either.
Speaking as an ex-law enforcement officer, a medical student, and pizza consumer, I'd be delighted if the majority of citizens carried firearms. When I was serving as a cop, I never had the attitude that an armed citizen was a dangerous citizen. On the contrary, I viewed them as a citizen that could a) take care of themselves and their family and b) as someone who could help me out if some really bad crap went down. If everyone had guns, I think you'd find the country would be a drastically safer and infinitely more polite place.
How about going one better; get someone in his area to be the collection point, and every time somebody gets the urge for Pizza Hut, contribute the money that would have been spent on it towards putting Spiers through a community college or certification program to help him find a better paying, safer job.
That is NOT cool! I'd have a heater if I worked a job slangin' 'zas!
241 commuter, what an arrogant person you are! Most Pizza delivery persons are one's who indeed do have full time jobs during the day and work delivery at night for a litle moonlighting. You have an issue with someone working 12-16 hr. days to take care of their family? Wow, I wonder what it is you think of the welfare people who don't work at all?
So, when the inevitable happens, and an employee shoots the wrong person, or hits Granny by mistake, Pizza Hut will fix the problem, yes?
That's the only reason we prohibited employees from trying to protect what is, after all, a fairly small sum of money. Further, as has happened in other places, when robbers know that employees are armed, they bring firepower and shoot first.
I have a CC permit. I NEVER carried while on the floor.
John-A handgun isn't to protect Pizza Hut's money, it is to protect the driver's life. If I get mugged, and I think that giving up my wallet gives me the same chance of getting out of it unharmed as shooting the robber, I'll give him my wallet, my car, pretty much anything except my family. I really, really don't ever want to shoot someone, no matter how much they deserve it. My job is defense, not punishment.
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